Archive of Thread: Yarn untwisting during ball winding Back

3 years ago
This is a topic that has bothered me for many years.  During the 80s and 90s when cone yarn was easily available, I used  cone yarn for almost every project I machine knitted.  When I did use yarn that I wound on balls, I noticed that the yarn twist was not as tight and I would have problems with the needles catching on random strands and jamming.  My solution was to use the yarn directly from the skein, pulling out large amounts at a time before I knitted. And always use cone yarn!

Fast forward.
Due to life and work schedule, my machines went into storage. About 10 years ago, I started to crochet. After a few nice projects, I used a yarn that started untwisting almost from the minute i started using it. After internet research and talking to a spinning friend, I learned about  S and Z twisted yarn. In this particular case, I have purchased a Z twisted yarn and being a left handed crochetor, I was untwisting the yarn simply by using it.

Current
Knitting machines are both set up, I went to my local knit shop and bought several hanks of yarn to start relearning my machines.  As the store owner was winding the hank into balls, I asked if there were any recommendations on using the balls... center pull vs outside pull, pulling clockwise vs counter clockwise. direction of winding balls from hanks.  She said that it really shouldn't matter, I could use the balls however I wanted.
However, I'm not sure that is correct.  I noticed that the balls that were wound in the shop had a looser twist than the yarn that was left in hanks. 
Is the process of winding into balls undoing the original twist, or tightening the twist depending on which direction you turn the handle? 
Should the balls be rewound again in reverse to return it the the original twist? 
Can center vs outside pull return it to original twist?
Are cone yarns originally twisted to compensate for the clockwise twist pulling off the cone?
Would using a rotating ball spindle or swift below the machine help keep original twist?
Any thoughts or suggestions?

3 years ago
BRAVO to you, Audrey.  I, too, have wondered about this problem all of my crocheting, thread crocheting, machine knitting, and hand-knitting life!  I finally decided that when I used my ball winder to wind a skein or hank into a ball, that I should then rewind that same ball of yarn on the ball winder to return it to its original twist.  This doesn't work in all cases, but it certainly has seemed to help.  I'll be following this thread to see what the experts have to say to us about this problem.
Sandee in Auburn, Washington State, USA

3 years ago
I don't think I can offer any help on the "twist" problem, but one thing I would say is that I always use a wound ball from the outside, not the centre.  If you pull the yarn from the centre you end up with a a ring of yarn strands round a large centre space which collapses and tangles easily and/or the end of the yarn from the outside gets.caught up with the end going to the machine.   Then any left over at the end of the project needs to be wound again for storage.

I mostly use coned yarns, but just lately I have been using up a lot of fine yarns, knitting 2 or 3 strands together and have sometimes wound them into balls.  I bought a new set of "hats" for my ball winder so that I could keep the yarn on the hat while I was knitting which I find is even better than a free-standing ball.

BTW Sandee, I only just noticed your post about blocking boards.  I recently bought a set of Pumeo blocking boards (available from amazon.com) and I am delighted with them.  I can stick pins and steam - no problem.  And they fit together so firmly that I can steam something like a cot blanket, then lean the "block" of maybe 6 squares, upright against the wall so that the knitting can dry out and the cats can't walk all over it!!   Amazin have several similar sets, but I thought it worth paying a little extra to have the storage bag, which is good quality too.

Jenny

3 years ago
Sandee and Jenny,
Thank you both for your input 🙂

What my friend who spins told me was that most store purchased yarn was spun with a final s twist.  This is the standard for the majority of right hand knitters in the US.  However if the S yarn is going to be used by a right hand crochetor, it will likely untwist as it is used and that crochet thread is normally has a final z twist to work for the right handed crochetor.  The reason I didn't have a problem with my crochet projects was that I am a left handed crochetor and was adding twist to the s twisted yarn.  But when I used a z twisted yarn (designed for the right handed crochetor) I was untwisting the yarn with each stitch.

She said that when she custom makes yarn, she will ask how the yarn will be used and spin it accordingly.  The questions she felt were the most important were: knit or crochet, if knit then right or left hand and if you were a picker or thrower.  If crochet, the questions were left or right hand and yarn over or yarn under.

But since I wasn't using my KM at the time, I didn't ask her opinion on what would be best for the KM  yarn applications and sadly she is not with us anymore. 

I just realized there is a custom yarn mill in a neighboring town.  I think I might stop in and see what their thoughts will be.  I will keep everyone posted.

Audrey in Oklahoma

3 years ago
Thank you, thank you, Jenny -- re: the blocking boards.  That's exactly what I've searched for in vain -- until now.  I'll order them today.

Sandee in Auburn, Washington State, USA